I agree with you on this From what I can see, most of the Decepticons are nothing but plain old thugs to be honest. Some of them are too stupid to really question WHY they are D-cons to be honest. Like humans, I think TFs can be duped into siding with something simply because that's all they've ever known.

--
Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies

I think that's a lot of it right there -- some Decepticons side with the Decepticons simply because they know no other way, and don't have the courage or intelligence to question why. Some genuinely seem to be smart but still fight for whatever reason, though.

--
Q: How many Transformers fans does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Eight. One to change it, and the rest to complain that the light bulb was so much better back in the 80s.

I support well-written, in-character fanfic!

Hey, I'm not complaining. There is no such thing as a person who is truly, purely evil, and I refuse to treat the supposedly evil characters as such. They're more interesting if they're a little grey.

--
William Rendfeld
That EchoWing Guy...
Author of "Transformers: Armada (Revisited)"

Well I think some people can go frag themselves!-Hothead

While it is true that the Decepticons are evil, it dosen't mean we can't define how evil we think they are.-Icy

That's right! People can think they as good as the Autobots or as evil as......uh, evil itself!-Crazy

--
Ratchet: They're eveywhere, watching, waiting...
Optimus: The Decepitcons?
Ratchet: No, those slaging fangirls!
--
Proud member of the ~Autobot-club

I gotta agree with you. For one part, I just love seeing the Movie Decepticons tear things up just because...it's really cool, and this doesn't just apply to the Moviecons, that they may have this spiky, cold-blooded shell, but they have more emotion and being a real being locked up inside of them. Most of the time, when we think 'Decepticon', we think of them being portrayed as the villains per say. But I mean, take a look at G1 TC, he serves the Decepticons because he has no real other choice and his last option would be to harm the innocent (Which is one great reason why I like Glory at TC...), some, like RotF Sideways, don't choose to harm others as their first option. The Decepticons can't be just 'evil', they really need more emotion, and I think you add a great deal of emotion to them in your RPs and writing. ^^

--
Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest...is silence.- Words of the noble hero

I think it's a matter of how one sees the Decepticons, really. Some people see them as a band of thugs who want to take over the universe. Maybe they are. But I've always seen them as military, quite frankly. It's not really because it's said that they're "military hardware" so much as the "vibe" I get from them. I see them as a military organization gone corrupt, in a nutshell. It's funny because in a lot of fic that I read, authors give the Autobots military structure, with a command hierarchy and the whole officers vs. enlisted dynamic. But I don't see the Autobots as military at all. I see them as a guerilla resistance group. There's a leader and there are individuals who are responsible for certain things, but there is no military structure beyond that. Again, this is just the "vibe" I get from them. Always have.

So, to me the 'Cons are the more structured group, on a basic level. They're more fractious than they "should" be due to the corruption of having power, and so there's more infighting than would generally be allowed in a military organization. But I think it's only allowed to go so far. Megatron can, of course, do whatever he wants to do. He gets to beat the piss out of Starscream, but no one else can. And I don't think there'd be a whole lot of toleration of the troops beating up on each other in general. Can't get the job done if your troops are laid up because they've been beating the piss out of each other.

On top of this, many people seem to see the Autobots and Decepticons as inherently different from each in some way, like being one or the other is just a matter of programming. There is some cartoon support for this. For example, the Constructicons and the Robosmasher (God, I just love that name for some reason. ) or the Constructicons and the "Dominator Discs." (Poor Constructicons; one wonders if they know which way is up after all this programming and re-programming they've undergone. ) So, if it's all a matter of programming, then the Decepticons are simply programmed to be "evil." Of course, the implication is that they can then be de-programmed, yes?

Me, I don't buy into that. To me, a TF is TF just as a human is a human regardless of race, culture, or the life choices they've made. There could be "programming" in the sense of brainwashing or buying too enthusiastically into propaganda or what-have-you, but not programming like programming a computer. So for my TFs, each of them chose to be on whichever said they're on, often for complex reasons. Otherwise, they're just slaves to their programmed nature, with no free will, and that's boring.

As for the whole evil thing...I don't think the Decepticons are "evil" in a universal sense. They're nasty to humans because to them humans are beneath consideration, unworthy of respect. Much the same way as we view, say, critters that we consider to be pests. When your house is infested with termites, you don't consider their feelings or have compassion for their drive to survive. You simply call the exterminator and slaughter them wholesale. I daresay this makes us very evil from the perspective of a termite. True, you could say that termites aren't sentient like you...but then I'm sure to a Decepticon humans aren't sentient like them. It's all a matter of perspective.

All that said, I DO think there are limits to how "nice" Decepticons can be. In general, I tend to think that they're "hardened." They kind of have to be. So, if they're being "nice," they're usually doing so because they have something to gain from it, or at least they think they do. I recoil from the notion of Decepticons going all squishy over a human. I don't see that happening. I think that certain individuals might be able to gain respect for certain humans, but in general? No. I think a lot of the fan dislike of nice Decepticons is that it's often done in the name of having one of them fall madly in love with their pet, often self-insert OC. In the fandom at large, I think this is why people take heat for writing "nice" Decepticons.

And there's my ramble for the day. I'm not ever sure I addressed your points but...there it is.

All very valid points there. But you needn't worry about me; I enjoy your writing.

--
Missing Link-*to Susan*Look, you've been letting this quack experiment on you for the past month.
Dr. Cockroach-I'm not a quack! I'm a mad scientist. There IS a difference.

You have an excellent point, but you knew I thought so seeing as how we’ve talked about this very topic on… about a lot of times already

"It's a kid's cartoon, they couldn't be graphic about it," very true people. However, even if we DO take these characters and raise the rating their personalities don’t change because of that. And that in itself tells us if a character will go ultra cruel or not-. I dare say that there are very few G1 Decepticons who would fall that low. Hence, a G1 story with a higher rating: deaths, injuries, human casualties to mention a few things not seen in the ”kids cartoon” (OK deaths are seen in the movie but you all know what I mean here) but said higher rating stuff can happen without going OOC with the characters and twisting them into horrible murderous evil MONMSTERS of much DOOM and BWAHAHAHA! I believe I have proven this concept with my big story project. I’m not sure if you agree but the rating for that is definitely considerably more adult than for a kids cartoon, yet the characters are still who they are despite featuring, deaths, violent ones at that, suffering and other things that ARE part of warfare.

I still say it is all a matter of choosing a continuity and stay true to that. Hence: writing comic book Decpeticons might leave them a lot more like evil murderous monsters. FINE because that’s the comic book continuity. But that is not the same thing as G1 cartoon continuity. Hence making a character from the G1 cartoon act that way might very well be dreadfully OOC. And once and for all: CHARACTERIZATION IS NOT OPEN FOR INTERPRETATION (like we’ve stated before) any more than a real life persons personality is open for “interpretation”. Different people may SEE the characters in different ways but that does NOT, contrary to popular belief, change who they are. Let’s take a real life example to illustrate this: Some people se me as a nice person who’s fun to talk to etc, others see me as a horrible witch of much evil who should be burnt with much flaming *grin*. That is how THEY see the real person RG whom is in fact not a fictional character, but it doesn’t change who RG is. It’s the same for a fictional character. Hah! *grin*

What I think is that people need to actually look at the different continuities and understand once and for all that Cartoon Sunstreaker is NOT the same character as All hail Megatron Sunstreaker just like how G1 Megatron is NOT the same as BW Megatron. They are different personalities who share a name and sometimes appearance. Hence Cartoon and comic is NOT the same thing. Even different comics and different cartoons about Transformers have things that make them separate continuities. And because of that we can NOT claim that just because something was canon in blah continuity it makes it canon in an older or newer continuity. Hope I’m not making this too confusing (trying not to make this a five page thing )

Also "Muahahaha, look at me, I'm evil, GRRR!" That had me giggle because it’s so true. I think this label could be applied to either the “let’s mock the overly evil characters” or the “oh no it’s fanfic impostors again pretending to be G1 characters!”

“Third, and I will probably be lynched for this... just because a Transformer wears the purple crest doesnt' mean they're evil. “

Very well put. And I do agree. One can NOT judge a entire faction like that. It has to be on a mech ot mech basis so that while one might be ultra evil the Decepticon beside him might NOT be. Same thing goes for the Autobots. I can name at least two utter assholes among the Autobots who qualify quite nicely under the “evil” brand. And I can name even more Decepticons who aren’t evil even if their actions might not be the kindest at all times. It’s once again a matter of looking at the situation. If we look at warfare and see it from the Autobot side, then of COURSE the Decepticons will come across as evil. But if we change perspective and look at the same warfare from the Decepticon’s point of view then, not surprisingly, the Autobots will suddenly come across as evil. So I say that there are both good and evil among BOTH factions.

And no, I see no reason not taking this to the extreme. Decepticons ARE more brutal, they DO care a lot less about what happens to the place they use to for instance gather energy. They are more ruthless and care more for themselves. They are not super good guys. Just like the Autobots aren’t super bad guys. But there ARE greytones between the black and white which the cartoons proves over and over again for those who bother to look and try to understand.

AND: importantly. Programming. If a mech is programmed to be a Decepticon, then that is what he is. It's not like all of them are evil just to be evil. Some of them were created into that faction so of COURSE they fight even if they aren't super evil.

I’ll just leave it at this ad not go into specific examples. But I say stick to what you are doing because when writing G1 it would be outright out of character to make the Decepticons into vicious monsters who are ONLY ever evil.

Looking forward to the reviews Promise I won’t bomb you with another five page analyze/reply for the other reviews like when you looked at Webworld XD.

--
- “Nobody grabs Cyclonus' bunny ears but Galvatron!”

- "Det skadar intet"

- Skadeglädjen är den enda samma glädjen

- "You amuse me, Mr. Bond"

- OOC-fans are not to speak to me OR fave my stuff under any circumstances

Yup I agree with you. That's why I always make it a point to make my characters have some alternate story or personality totally uninfluenced by the war. Shortcut never hits femmes and is a total ladies man and professional goofball, Titanus is a gentle giant and would go into stasis over a kitten, and Gladia is a mom. Canon or OC, a character needs a personality trait even if its just a case of insanity or depression ... I'm looking at you Dead End.

Simple hack-and-slash depictions of characters never interested me. Yeah yeah so they can kill a mech in one hit yadda yadda yadda... Ok they have a super giant weapon whatever... Sure its cool to see a character that has insane finesse in battle, but its only cool for so long. That's why I like Starscream (Hate to love him and love to hate him) He totally has personality but he's still bad ass in battle (when he's not running away XD).

I could live with the lack of personality in the movie because they were Decepticons and they were there to be depicted as bad guys. Megatron was intimidating by himself, and provided enough character to satisfy the need for an anchor to the Decepticon side, making the Cons more than just a brick wall against the Autobots.

Decepticons have to be fighting for something other than the destruction of the Autobots. Its lame to say that they're an angry, spiteful race, hellbent on destroying the galaxy. They have to be fighting for something be it Megatron wanting energy to save Cybertron, Megatron wanting energy to fuel his empire, the Autobots are a rebellion against Con rule or the Cons are a rebellion against Bot rule.

Sure Cons CAN be vicious like the comics or fics, but I wouldn't say that all of them would enjoy it or even DO it. If a Con did enjoy it they'd be treated like a psychopath. I think Megatron would regret having to destroy a planet, but he might do it in order to contain or back up a threat. He would never do it just cuz he can. He's a cold, calculating person. Not a nut case.

Characters like Motormaster I think are ok. The kind of guys that wrestle and beat each other up for fun. I wouldn't go as far as to say he'd ONLY love fighting (as you adorably depicted with him and Nemia X3), and I don't think he'd make an Autobot death slow and painful. He'd beat the living slag out of one! Sure!
He and Grimlock would be best buds if they weren't on opposing sides, admit it XD

TL;DR, I agree with you!

--
"Bah-weep-Graaaaagnah wheep ni ni bong."

"Ninjas can't catch you if you're on fire!" --- Dan McNinja

"You can't play power chords on a lute!" --- Jack

You're supposed to laugh...